Rubber like print filament

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Lawrence
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Rubber like print filament

Postby Lawrence » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:58 am

Hi Uppers
The future will be truly exciting.
This morning I received an email promoting the Fabbster 3D printer on view at the Euromold.
I can hear shouts of: "the traitor is promoting other 3D printer brands". No way ... but, just read on for some exciting technology!
My attention was drawn to a link: http://fabbster.com/news.php?nid=23
It has a video demonstrating a FLEXIBLE RUBBER LIKE MATERIAL that can be 3D printed.
So ... I then started researching and found: http://ifeelbeta.de/index.php/production/printing-soft-pla
This page shows a pliable "soft PLA", that is 3D printed at around 210°C.
Wow! Now that is really exciting.
So ... the good news is, I kept researching and found a supplier of soft PLA: http://www.2printbeta.de/product_info.php?products_id=120
Now the bad news. It is 3mm diameter.
The mind runs wild at visions of rubber like tyres (tires for our US Uppers), and myriad of other objects which need pliability.
So ... I am now going to keep searching for soft PLA in 1.75mm diameter. It exists out there, and maybe already available in a form suitable for our UP!s. We just need to find it.
Or maybe Afinia, 3D Systems, or even Up! themselves can seize this opportunity for a material that can print parts that require rubber like flexibility and characteristics.
Regards
Lawrence

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JuliaDee
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby JuliaDee » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:45 am

I have it on good authority that an elastomeric filament will be available for the Up! very soon - and I could really use it! Actually I could have really used it starting about six months ago...

Re the Fabbster, the geared material is a cute approach to solving feed problems, but a) injection-molding the material in sticks has got to be way more expensive than extruding a spool and b) what a hassle to have to load that magazine every time you want to print!

julia

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Lawrence
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby Lawrence » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:59 am

Hi Julia
No argument from me about the Fabbster. I don't want one. What I am looking for is a similar pliable material to use with my Up!
Regards
Lawrence

odiegel
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby odiegel » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:03 am

Watch this space... :-)

I'm just in the process of machining the (hopefully) final iteration of our pellet based extruder for the Up whcih will allow you to print in any plastic at the same cost of injection molding, as it uses the same pellets.
We are building it mainly to be able to print in thermoplastic rubber, but any other materials will be possible too.

We did a lot of trials with rubber filament, but found it really difficult to grip it properly, particularly if we wanted soft rubber, and pushing it through the nozzle. That's why we went for the auger based exruder approach instead. We've successfully printed some very cute rubber shoe inserts (for kids sized shoes, as we havent modified the Y axis length yet to print full sized ones)

Our intitial design used an external temperature controller and motor driver, so I am now in the process of modifying the design to make it directly retrofittable onto the Up. Once I have the design perfected I'll open-source it so you guys can make your own.

Picture attached showing overall concept...

Cheers
Olaf
Attachments
cocept1.jpg
cocept1.jpg (67.46 KiB) Viewed 11095 times

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Lawrence
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby Lawrence » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:50 am

Hi odiegel
Not being an engineer (only a retired accounting and business teacher) I don't quite grasp the technology you have teased us wit,
Some of us would probably prefer to bur the retrofit rather than make it. Are you intending to sell the completed retrofit. And, do you have a target date to complete the project.
Regards
Lawrence

odiegel
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby odiegel » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:42 am

Hi Lawrence,
The principle is pretty much the same as on an injection molder, which melts pellets of plastic, driven by an auger, into a mold. But in this case, instead of shooting the plastic into a mold, it just extrudes it and lets the 3D printer do the rest.
I don't intend on selling them, as it's not what I do as a core business, so will instead just make the design open-source so others can build their own. But somebody else could well start selling them.
Building 3rd generation prototype now, and that should be finished and tested this side of X-mas...
Cheers
Olaf

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Lawrence
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby Lawrence » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:48 am

Hi Olaf
Thanks. It does sound interesting, and worth waiting for.
Regards
Lawrence.

pp3dp.nl
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby pp3dp.nl » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:07 pm

I have seen some models printed with soft PLA, it looks great and there were no visible layers. The model looked and felt like soft foam rubber. Hopefully 1.75 mm will come soon, and the printable wood filament too.

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wilsonj
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby wilsonj » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:42 pm

Nice work odiegel. I like the simple design.

pp3dp.nl

I have some 1.7mm wood filament that I have been experimenting with. Its quite problematic unfortunately. I'm not really sure how to make it work well on the up yet. It starts out OK, but the after about 30mins printing things clog up. Then its about an hour to get it all cleaned out. The prints look really cool though.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

pp3dp.nl
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby pp3dp.nl » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:21 pm

Maybe you could try to drill out the nozzle a little bit. I did a lot of testing new materials like PE, PA and rubber like filament and sometimes a wider nozzle helped prevent clogging. The models did not look better though so don't drill out too much ;)

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Lawrence
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby Lawrence » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:28 pm

Hi Olaf
for me the ideal solution would be to have a complete extrusion head for printing in rubber, so that the ABS/PLA extrusion head would be unscrewed and replaced with the rubber extrusion head that the ribbon cable plugs into. Is this what you are planning?
Regards
Lawrence

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wilsonj
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby wilsonj » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:42 pm

pp3dp.nl wrote:Maybe you could try to drill out the nozzle a little bit. I did a lot of testing new materials like PE, PA and rubber like filament and sometimes a wider nozzle helped prevent clogging. The models did not look better though so don't drill out too much ;)


I have a set of 10 0.5mm drill bits just for that! I have a spare nozzle to try on. And yes 10 bits, as I suspect some will break.
Regards
Jamie
3DPrinterGear.com.au

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JuliaDee
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby JuliaDee » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:35 pm

Awesome, I want one!

julia

odiegel wrote:Watch this space... :-)

I'm just in the process of machining the (hopefully) final iteration of our pellet based extruder for the Up whcih will allow you to print in any plastic at the same cost of injection molding, as it uses the same pellets.
We are building it mainly to be able to print in thermoplastic rubber, but any other materials will be possible too.

We did a lot of trials with rubber filament, but found it really difficult to grip it properly, particularly if we wanted soft rubber, and pushing it through the nozzle. That's why we went for the auger based exruder approach instead. We've successfully printed some very cute rubber shoe inserts (for kids sized shoes, as we havent modified the Y axis length yet to print full sized ones)

Our intitial design used an external temperature controller and motor driver, so I am now in the process of modifying the design to make it directly retrofittable onto the Up. Once I have the design perfected I'll open-source it so you guys can make your own.

Picture attached showing overall concept...

Cheers
Olaf

juancr
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Re: Rubber like print filament

Postby juancr » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:15 pm

Amazing people here :geek:
Regards,
JuanCR
(You should know I do my best with my written english ;-) )


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